Orca safe to use?

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Orca safe to use?

Post by brian12 » Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:43 pm

Just downloaded orca again after having used it a few years ago. Its still faster then firefox :). Im just wondering if its safe to use since I know its based on a really old version of gecko. I tried updating it with the patch but all it does is crash with the patch installed, so I uninstalled it.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:28 pm

It's perfectly safe to use, yes. Aslong as common sense is used (i.e. disabling scripting/ActiveX/Flash/Java) then all browsers are pretty safe to use (alas this will also kill access to sites developed by idiotic web devs that think it fun to require these be enabled).

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by brian12 » Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:57 am

It's perfectly safe to use, yes. Aslong as common sense is used (i.e. disabling scripting/ActiveX/Flash/Java) then all browsers are pretty safe to use (alas this will also kill access to sites developed by idiotic web devs that think it fun to require these be enabled).
I know what you mean about sites not displaying correctly when you turn those things off. You cant even look at a motorcycle helmet manufacturers site without having flash. Its pretty sad. I guess I dont have to worry to much about exploits for the browser itself because its not very common. Mostly I was worried about holes in the engine. Hopefully will see a new version before long though. I really think Mr Che had firefox whipped with this browser.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:45 pm

MysteryFCM wrote:i.e. disabling scripting/ActiveX/Flash/Java
that's not really common sense imo. that's just taking the easy way out, to avoid needing to use common sense. why should someone have to disable all the things that make a browser good, just to make it "safe"?

however, yes, any plain browser would be considered safe.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:11 pm

There's no such thing as a trusted site anymore - even legit sites are susceptable to exploitation that leads to their visitors being infected.

Scripting, AX, Flash etc, are the most popular vectors and are for the most part, completely unnecessary.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by brian12 » Thu Jun 12, 2008 5:07 pm

Totally off topic but do you guys know how to turn off the info bar that comes up when you disable activex in Avant.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Thu Jun 12, 2008 9:33 pm

I don't believe that can be turned off I'm afraid ....

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:28 am

well, my Windows Live OneCare had been expired for about 3-4 months, before I finally reinstalled Windows. I surf the internet with ActiveX, JS, cookies, Java, scripting, you name it. I'd estimate that I had about 200-300 different sites in the temporary internet files. is it more of a matter of paranoia or common sense?

I'd say it's common sense, but you have every right to disagree. however, most computer users don't have much common sense for the internet, and a lot don't even know what a "script" is. but if someone knows enough to disable all of these things to prevent need for common sense, then they should have enough common sense to be able to protect themselves, because apparently they infact know what ActiveX is and it's dangers.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:39 am

brian12 wrote:Totally off topic but do you guys know how to turn off the info bar that comes up when you disable activex in Avant.
I believe that you can do it by setting avant.exe to 0, in regedit. start > run > regedit, browse to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\FeatureControl\FEATURE_SECURITYBAND, and change it to 0. I highly recommend not to change anything else, unless you know what you are doing. you can ruin your Windows installation this way.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:45 am

Your response actually annoys me somewhat as it is very condescending toward "normal" users.

Lack of knowledge, does not mean a lack of common sense ........I'd guestimate that 99% of users have and use common sense (how can they be expected to safeguard themselves against something they don't know is a risk?), but only a fraction will have heard of ActiveX, let alone know how to disable it.

Further to this, disabling scripting et al, does NOT prevent a need to use common sense. There are still cases of infections occuring with these disabled.

I personally have ActiveX, Flash and Java disabled, with Scripting only being enabled for certain sites (used to be enabled for most of them till the damn Web 2.0 sites such as Digg, froze Avant with it enabled). However, even with these disabled, I still run unknown sites through my vURL DE program prior to loading in the browser - just to be extra safe (I may be able to remove infections, but I'd rather prevent their getting in in the first place). And yep, before you say it - not everyone would be able to do this as it requires knowledge of HTML/scripting etc to understand whats being loaded.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:47 am

addonsfan wrote:
brian12 wrote:Totally off topic but do you guys know how to turn off the info bar that comes up when you disable activex in Avant.
I believe that you can do it by setting avant.exe to 0, in regedit. start > run > regedit, browse to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\FeatureControl\FEATURE_SECURITYBAND, and change it to 0. I highly recommend not to change anything else, unless you know what you are doing. you can ruin your Windows installation this way.
I'd forgotten about that one :oops:, but it should be noted that those running XP SP1 or below (including 9x, ME, 2000, NT), will not see this registry entry as it was introduced in SP2.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:56 am

you're right... I've been using "lack of common sense" in place of "lack of knowledge", as you've been saying web browsers are insecure vs Windows being insure. now go back and pretend I said "lack of knowledge", it's still the same point. you, yourself, have enough knowledge to know when not to accept an ActiveX control, so why do you disable such a good feature? it's degrating to the web browser.

browsers are not as insecure as you make them out to be. most likely, I can go as long as you can without a need to reinstall Windows... and whenever I need to reinstall, it's usually my own fault for not keeping up with the matainence.... then I just get fed up and reinstall. which is why I'd say it's Windows that less secure, not a web browser as you make it out to be. anything that connects you from the internet, and makes use of you network card, can be a potential threat to your Windows installation.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:58 am

MysteryFCM wrote:
addonsfan wrote:
brian12 wrote:Totally off topic but do you guys know how to turn off the info bar that comes up when you disable activex in Avant.
I believe that you can do it by setting avant.exe to 0, in regedit. start > run > regedit, browse to HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\Main\FeatureControl\FEATURE_SECURITYBAND, and change it to 0. I highly recommend not to change anything else, unless you know what you are doing. you can ruin your Windows installation this way.
I'd forgotten about that one :oops:, but it should be noted that those running XP SP1 or below (including 9x, ME, 2000, NT), will not see this registry entry as it was introduced in SP2.
you don't need to disable what's not there. iirc, the information bar was introduced in SP2.

edit: actually, I'm not sure if it'll work at all. I remember a previous issue about Avant automatically enabling one of these settings upon startup, but you can try it.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:15 am

addonsfan wrote:you're right... I've been using "lack of common sense" in place of "lack of knowledge", as you've been saying web browsers are insecure vs Windows being insure. now go back and pretend I said "lack of knowledge", it's still the same point.
I didn't say you said "lack of knowledge" at all. Nor did I say or infer, you were using a lack of common sense in place of lack of knowledge - you evidently misunderstood my reply and construed that.
addonsfan wrote:you, yourself, have enough knowledge to know when not to accept an ActiveX control, so why do you disable such a good feature? it's degrating to the web browser.
It's not degrading at all - it's an unnecessary risk - plain and simple. Scripting et al, should be left at the server side, not the client side (the only reason I can see for scripting on the client side, is for popups, and even they are annoying (with the obvious exception of new PM notifications on forums)).
addonsfan wrote:browsers are not as insecure as you make them out to be. most likely, I can go as long as you can without a need to reinstall Windows... and whenever I need to reinstall, it's usually my own fault for not keeping up with the matainence.... then I just get fed up and reinstall. which is why I'd say it's Windows that less secure, not a web browser as you make it out to be. anything that connects you from the internet, and makes use of you network card, can be a potential threat to your Windows installation.
Browsers are not insecure, this is true - but their engines ARE (whether Trident, Gecko or Opera et al). Not all risks can be blamed entirely on Windows itself. Blaming Windows for every vector of infection is simply ignorant.
Last edited by MysteryFCM on Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added missing quote after: I didn't say you said "lack of knowledge

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:16 am

addonsfan wrote:you don't need to disable what's not there. iirc, the information bar was introduced in SP2.
It was actually introduced in the Trident engine itself, not Windows. Thus, those using newer versions of the engine, will also see this.

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:21 am

MysteryFCM wrote:
addonsfan wrote:you're right... I've been using "lack of common sense" in place of "lack of knowledge", as you've been saying web browsers are insecure vs Windows being insure. now go back and pretend I said "lack of knowledge", it's still the same point.
I didn't say you said "lack of knowledge" at all. Nor did I say or infer, you were using a lack of common sense in place of lack of knowledge - you evidently misunderstood my reply and construed that.
addonsfan wrote:you, yourself, have enough knowledge to know when not to accept an ActiveX control, so why do you disable such a good feature? it's degrating to the web browser.
It's not degrading at all - it's an unnecessary risk - plain and simple. Scripting et al, should be left at the server side, not the client side (the only reason I can see for scripting on the client side, is for popups, and even they are annoying (with the obvious exception of new PM notifications on forums)).
addonsfan wrote:browsers are not as insecure as you make them out to be. most likely, I can go as long as you can without a need to reinstall Windows... and whenever I need to reinstall, it's usually my own fault for not keeping up with the matainence.... then I just get fed up and reinstall. which is why I'd say it's Windows that less secure, not a web browser as you make it out to be. anything that connects you from the internet, and makes use of you network card, can be a potential threat to your Windows installation.
Browsers are not insecure, this is true - but their engines ARE (whether Trident, Gecko or Opera et al). Not all risks can be blamed entirely on Windows itself. Blaming Windows for every vector of infection is simply ignorant.
I think you're the one that misread my post. =P~

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:38 am

How?

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:54 am

MysteryFCM wrote:
addonsfan wrote:you're right... I've been using "lack of common sense" in place of "lack of knowledge", as you've been saying web browsers are insecure vs Windows being insure. now go back and pretend I said "lack of knowledge", it's still the same point.
I didn't say you said "lack of knowledge" at all. Nor did I say or infer, you were using a lack of common sense in place of lack of knowledge - you evidently misunderstood my reply and construed that.
and I didn't say that you said I said, "lack of knowledge". I was saying that's what I should've been saying.

that's all. :)
I'm not even going to argue the rest, even though I feel a serious urge to. :lol:
(I'm a professional computer technician, not a professional arguer)

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by MysteryFCM » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:15 am

Err, you said, and it's quoted, "now go back and pretend I said "lack of knowledge"", so you did infact infer that I said you'd been doing such.

However, since I'm also not a PA, shall we just agree to disagree and leave it at that?

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Re: Orca safe to use?

Post by addonsfan » Fri Jun 13, 2008 2:43 am

sounds like a plan... maybe I could've chosen my words better to prevent confusion...

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